The first case is especially harrowing. Stuff reports:
A Christian father made his young daughter pray for forgiveness with him after he had sexually abused her.
The man was a church official at the time, prompting Christchurch District Court Judge Stephen Erber to highlight the hypocrisy of his conduct - working with Christian youth while abusing his daughter from the age of five to 11 years, Christchurch Court News website reported.
Sexual abuse is abhorrent to us, and can never by justified. But spiritual abuse is a cancer on the Christian church, and this case is a prime example of that. That such an abuse of trust was committed by a parent on a child is bad enough; that the abuse was perpetrated by a Christian makes it even worse in our opinion. We can understand why the daughter has lost her faith in the church and in God; we hope that the latter may be recovered in time.
The second case is just bizarre - check this out:
A child-sex offender who believes giving a DNA sample would condemn him to eternal damnation wants an exemption from inclusion on a national police database.
David Hugh Chord, 37, appeared before Judge Peter Butler in Wellington District Court on Friday for a hearing to decide whether he will have to provide a DNA sample for a national database.
Chord is a Christian and believed that, if his DNA was taken, he would be given the "mark of the Beast" and damned for eternity, his lawyer, Michael Bott, said.
Chord is serving two years and nine months in prison after pleading guilty to six counts of an indecent act on a young person, and one of an indecent act on a child last year.
Mr Bott argued Chord's religious belief should exempt him from having to provide a sample for the database. "Based upon his interpretation of the Book of Revelation, that means he's effectively damned and cut off from fellowship with his God."
Now, we're the first to admit that we haven't studied the Book of Revelation in as much detail as we've read other parts of the Bible. But in the times when we have read that particular book, we've never seen any mention of DNA. We reckon that David Chord is flying a very large kite here in his attempt to avoid having to furnish a DNA sample. We wonder if it has anything to do with him being represented by Michael Bott from the Council for Civil Liberties.
So back to our question; what would Jesus do in these situations? We believe that he would grieve WITH those who have been abused, and that he would grieve FOR those who have committed the abuse. We freely admit that the outworking of God's abundant grace is a mystery to us, even though we receive it on a daily basis; it is so alien to everything that life throws at us each and every day.
There's another element to this too. Is it any wonder that people are turning away from the Christian church in increasing numbers? The church is not immune to hypocrisy (nor are we, as we are likely to be reminded by a couple of commenters!), but these types of cases are at the extreme end of the scale. How does the church recover from the damage caused by a few, which would be abhored by the many?
These are serious questions, and we hope that they may stimulate some serious debate. We'd prefer that this thread doesn't become just another opportunity to bash Christianity and Christians, and we will be watching comments. The overwhelming majority of followers of Jesus are just ordinary people who face the same challengers as anyone else.
28 comments:
Prayer is amazing tool for personal healing and development. And to see it abused in such a way to make against an abuse victim is sickening.
I hope that the girl can find her belief in the church again and that prayer can provide her with the strength to continue to live a wonderful life.
Jesus will be grieving with both sides of this case. He will be grieving with the victim and looking for a way to provide her the strength and self belief to understand she is a strong individual who has done no wrong and will have a successful life.
He will be seeking a way to show the abuser the wrong he has done and after confession of this he will set the man back on the path of redemption to a life of righteousness.
Jesus is the most forgiving, I know I do not have the same compassion and forgiveness and compassion for abusers especially those of a sexual nature.
Oh for goodness' sake - must we play this game? - Jesus would have gone in there and turned the place upside down.
to the first I believe that Jesus would say:
"You have turned my Father's house into a den of thieves" and to the second - "Render unto Ceasar that which is Caesar's"
If we are worried about this dude's 'spiritual' relationship with God - Screw him - he had no compassion for his victims - let God work out what their 'relationship' is - because at the end of the day, I think He gets the final word.
Of course with a cheeky comma, we could now review what exactly Jesus meant when he said 'Suffer little children.' For these sickoes, I assume this would be interpreted as biblical endorsement of their deviant lifestyle.
As an atheist, my simplistic perception of a Christian is a believer in Christ and a desire to serve him through their actions. At what point do these evil scum lose their entitlement to their lofty claims? I could call myself a unicorn, but it wouldn't mean I had a horn jutting from my head.
as a reader of current news it would seem the old christian ways of shutting down the issue and moving the scumbag to a new parish are over.
My partner - as a young girl - had Capill as her minister.
While the church is opening up to the many horrors that hide in its closet, there is still some reluctance...
I think your question of 'what would jesus do?' falls into the same trap that many of the abusers use... personal interpretation, that jesus will forgive etc
I more interested in what the judge is going to say
Jesus was a human. God was invented by humans. Humans can do nasty things. Humans can do wonderful things. Religion is an absolute copout that allows you to defer what happens in this life to be judged in another. I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.
S Roberts.
Anon @ 12.40
I sincerely hope your partner was not a direct victim of that hypocritical maggot on society...I personally find his wifes staunch support as sickening and debauched as her husbands.
Inv 2..why no comment, would be intersted in your opinions, as issues close to your heart.
I will comment Suz, but I've been up to my ears in accounts!
It is sad that followers of Christ would misuse spiritual practices like prayer or misquote the Bible to justify their sins like in the first case or to escape the consequences of their sin as in the second case.
In the first case, making the girl pray for forgiveness made the abuser feel that he was not the one who sinned but his daughter. He was spiritually, physically and emotionally abusing this girl.
In the second case the guy doesnt want to face up with the consequences of his actions. If he is not prepared to accept the consequences of his actions, is he genuinely remorseful of his actions. He is now using the Bible to support his wrong attitude.
In both cases I dont think Jesus would accept their behaviour. He would be prepared to show grace and forgive them both because that is the amazing thing about God's grace. However grace does not remove the consequences and if they choose not to face the consequences, then in some ways they are also rejecting God's opportunity to receive His forgiveness and to make right what they did wrong which includes facing the consequences of their actions.
Anon @ 2.17
In your opinion are these two abusers "Christian"? Even though I'm not, I respect those of you who genuinely are, and thus have trouble accepting these low-life into your fold? Please contradict me if I'm wrong coz I'm open to learning.
All religions, with their gods, demigods, prophets, messiahs and saints, are the product of the fancy and credulity of men who have not yet reached the full development and complete personality of their intellectual powers.
M Bakunin.
I'll cut in here Suz; Christians sin, probably just as much as non-Christians. But there's this thing called repentance; turning away from something that you know is wrong, accepting the consequences of it, and righting the wrong. My personal belief is that neither of the men referred to are anywhere near that point; both are trying to either minimise their offending, or deflect the blame. Both need (in my personal, layman's opinion) intensive counselling to bring them to that point; something like the Kia Marama course which is required treatment for serious sex offenders in prison.
Both men profess to be Christians. Neither is living the life that Christ intended for them. Only they can put that right.
I cannot believe in a God who wants to be praised all the time.
F.N.
Since it is no longer permissible to disparage any single faith or creed, let us start disparaging all of them. A religion is a belief system with no basis in reality whatever. Religious belief is without reason and without dignity, and its record is near-universally dreadful.
Issac. A.
Our remedies oft in ourselves do lie, Which we ascribe to heaven.
W.S.
I appreciate both Anon2.44pm and Inv2 comments, however polar they may be. My devout Catholic, alcoholic and abusive "father" would "repent" on a weekly basis...Does that mean forgiveness from a higher power, regardless of the previous 6 days behaviour? I think more highly of TRUE Christians than this, and can only hope this isn't the case.
@ Suz - I'm truly sorry to hear of your experiences. Did your father's weekly repentance coincide with visits to the confessional? Repentance is an act of the heart, far more than it is a religious ritual.
@ Anon (12.40pm) - you're right; that the church has, in the past condoned abuse by its silence or failure to act is shameful.
@ Anon (1.25pm) - a friend has provided some support to that family, and I think you'll find that the 2010 version of Mrs C is vastly different to the person prior to his incarceration. Power and control is insidious, and deeply damaging.
Hey Inv
Only when he could get his sorry drunken arse up out of bed after beating my mother black and blue the night before, which was more regular than his "repentance". Unfortunately, there was no heart in that man, having been bought up and educated in the best Catholic schools, hence my guarded attitude to Catholicism, but I'm well aware he's hopefully not your typical Christian decent soul
Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful. Seneca.
Men never commit evil so fully and joyfully as when they do it for religious convictions. Pascal
Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned. Unknown.
If I spoke to god every day, christians would loved me for it. If I said I spoke to god through my hair dryer, they would think I was mad. I fail to see how the addition of a hair dryer makes it any more absurd.
Speaking to God (via hair dryer or not!) is the easy part. The harder part, especially when you're as verbose as me, is shutting up long enough to let him get a word in! (Inv2)
Those who believe absurdities will commit atrocities.
Blind faith is an ironic gift to return to the Creator of human intelligence.
People who don't like their beliefs being laughed at shouldn't have such funny beliefs.
You keep believing, I'll keep evolving.
but what would Santa do?
Damned good question, give us victims of Cathoicism gone horribly wrong an answer, xx.
I used to look after a mad guy who was very big on the God stuff. We weren't allowed to walk too close to him in case he was suddenly sucked up into the great bar in the sky... "no staff allowed up there!" he used to say.
alas Suz, we are all victims of christianity.
xx Santa
Nothing wrong with talking to God through a hair dryer, although if you used my wife's you would have to yell.
'What would Jesus do?' is a big question and perhaps too big for us humans on a topic like this.
Once heard that the WWJD bracelets were the most stolen item from Christian bookstores. Go figure
You'd want danger money having to deal with that Santa, although a session at the bar with him could potentially be quite fun!
In regards to shop-lifting, I recently couldn't find the Paw Justice tags in my local supermarket, and the nice lady who helped me locate them, informed me copious amounts of them had been stolen???
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