I hope they go to prison for a long time, with a cellmate
Left-leaning blogs howled in outrage, claiming that the Minister of Police and Minister of Corrections was advocating jailhouse rape. Here's a selection from the cyber-buffet:
- Dim-Post - She really shouldn’t encourage individual citizens to rape each other.
- The Hand-Mirror - And now she's telling us that, for her, abuse and violence between inmates is a feature of double-bunking, not a bug. She is not explicit, but we live in a culture where threats of rape in prison are common enough that she doesn't need to finish the thought by telling us that the cellmate is large and called Bubba. By signalling that she thinks looters should be subject to rape and violence from their cell mates, she has acknowledged that her policy of introducing cellmates is responsible for increased rape and violence.
- No Right Turn - Does the Minister of Police believe looters should be raped in prison?
- CapitalismBad - Tree pretty - So when the Police Minister implies that looters should be raped, the ideas she's promoting about prison are appalling, but they don't just affect prisoners.
Collins' remark did NOT suggest that prisoners should be raped, but commentators from the left were quick to draw that inference. What then, do they make of this comment from Phil Goff?
Labour leader Phil Goff joked that the army should shoot looters stealing goods after the Christchurch earthquake in a radio interview.
On radio station BFM on February 28, Mr Goff talked about meeting a man in Linwood whose sister was killed in the quake, whose house had been badly damaged but then it was ransacked by looters.
"I saw the army out in the street and I thought court martial, firing squads you just can't believe how low a small minority of people can get," he told the radio station.
Here's a link to the audio file of the complete interview. Goff's "firing squad" comment comes about halfway through, and we suggest listening to the prelude, which gives some context.
Goff now claims that he was only joking. Laying aside the fact that the comment was made only six days after the devastating earthquake, it seems to be a rather strange subject to be joking about; advocating the summary execution of citizens by police or the army. The joke's very much on Phil Goff this morning.
FWIW, we reckon that both Collins' and Goffs' comments were ill-advised, but in the circumstances, entirely understandable. These are extraordinary times, and emotions run close to the surface.
But we will be interested to see whether or not there is the same outrage (faux outrage?) from the left towards "their" man. There certainly hasn't been balance in the media coverage of the two comments. Time will tell whether some left-wing blogger is prepared to condemn Phil Goff's "firing squad" comment in the same manner in which they climbed in to Judith Collins for something which she did not actually say.
39 comments:
"Collins' remark did NOT suggest that prisoners should be raped"
What do you base this opinion on Inv2?
My serious reaction was that Ms Collins was suggesting that the Rolleston Grand Chancellor was not an option and some deprivation of the inmates priveledges including double bunking as opposed to a home away from home was appropriate.
My lighter side, as commented earlier, was that the minister didnt want the little darlings to be lonely and forced to endure solitary confinement.
Either way, as a former boarding school boy that had no such outcomes as the socialists howled about, rape and sexual abuse were not to the forefront of my thoughts.
Incidentally 7 of us healthy heterosexuals of the class of 56 had a mini reunion for three days last weekend at a small country pub with our spouses and the "mens" bathroom had a certain de ja vue about it with two small shower cubicles opening off it and apart from a comment from the one of us waiting for hip surgery who laughed when he dropped the soap, it was as I would have expected with all the similar modesty we could muster 55 years ago.
Methinks some sick minds at work here.
Why do you spend a good portion of your time focussing on the incredible bullshit of politics between left and right? This is an example of the rubbish you foster. Tit for tat. Why be a party to it? You are as bad as the people you complain about. You surely are not using the talents your god gave you.
On what do you base your opinion that she WAS Rob?
You are in bed with that awful Cameron Slater and those militant standard types. Pleasant bedfellows?
GrazedTodger, from one former boarding school boy to another, Longburn College doesn't really count. There are only two boarding schools worth mentioning and if you don't know what they are, then you're a sad excuse for Ms Collin's lap-dog.
You first Inv2 - you made the statement.
Here's the difference Rob - Judith Collins did NOT encourage jailhouse rape, but the left was happy to draw that inference and vilify her. Phi Goff DID talk about state-sanctioned firing squads, and the left is silent.
Neither statement reflects well on the person making it, but both statements are understandable in the circumstances. But let's have a bit of balance between the faux outrage over Collins and the silence over Goff.
Can't see any criticisim of Mr Goffs comments by the left in the various blogs.
Given that "bobg" hasn't risen to his defence obviously he feels the same treatment should be dished out to the looters as well.
Inv2 - with respect, you've answered my question (or rather not answered) by simply repeating your original assertion.
My question is/was:
"What do you base this opinion (Collins' remark did NOT suggest that prisoners should be raped) on?"
Some are having a great deal of comprehension problems with the two statements.
Ms Collins statement has many connotations that could be inferred depending on ones train of thought, Mr Goff's statement was less open to interpretation. Really only how many shots connect and just how dead the looters would end up.
Reminds me of the old line from a long forgotten western from a gnarly old Sherrif "did you have to shoot him SO dead?"
Sheesh.
Inv2 seems to be avoiding my question (he's probably busy - I'll check back later).
Maybe the seasoned Gravedodger might comment on why he thinks Collin's added the 'with a cell mate' comment and what he thinks she meant by that?
Inv2 is up-country Rob (PTL for iPhones!)
For some strange reason i thought that this was I2's blog not bobg's.
My mistake.
Anyway bobg are you lining up to join Phil's firing squad?
Or are you adopting the tried and true tactic of obfustication distraction, avoidance prevarication and generally ignring the issue to avoid addressing it?
alex - perhaps you could enlighten me about Collins' 'with a cell mate' comment.
It's right on topic for this thread.
At the risk of repeating myself Rob, can you please show me evidence that Judith Collins was referring to rape. Phil Goff's comment was far less obtuse; he reckoned (but of course it was just a joke) that looters should face a firing squad. I would be interested to hear your opinion about THAT, not having the argument turned back on me.
Inv2 - play fair Inv2 - you made the claim (in your post) that "Collins' remark did NOT suggest that prisoners should be raped"
I asked that what you based that claim on.
You've not said. Instead, you've questioned me.
Come on Inv2 - you made the claim. Back it up!
If you can't justify your statement or even explain your thinking, well, so be it but perhaps you could tell me what you think Collins meant by her 'and a cell mate' comment.
Here's what Collins said:
I hope they go to prison for a long time, with a cellmate.
It's a pretty straightforward statement. It ceratinly doesn't incite or encourage rape, nor even violence. It hasn't stopped people jumping to conclusions though.
Contrast that with Goff:
"I saw the army out in the street and I thought court martial, firing squads you just can't believe how low a small minority of people can get,"
No ambiguity there. Execpt Goff now claims that it was a joke. I reckon that the joke's on Phil.
Well said I2.
Your turn bobg.
Again Inv2 - you repeat that you don't believe Collins' statement has any meaning such as that claimed by others. You don't say why you hold that view, you just repeat, over and over, that you believe it to be so. I'm taken-aback by your inability to understand my question. I'll have to change tack a little and try this question:
Cpllins could have just said:
"I hope they go to prison for a long time."
but she added, "with a cellmate."
Can you see that there is a significant difference between the shorter version and the longer?
If so (and I pray that you van Inv2), please tell me what you think she meant by the tagged-on "with a cellmate".
She clearly meant something more by saying that. What do you think it was?
I am happy to discuss Goff's statement, as soon as you have given a reasonable answer Inv2.
I2?
RG said "Again Inv2 - you repeat that you don't believe Collins' statement has any meaning such as that claimed by others. You don't say why you hold that view, you just repeat, over and over, that you believe it to be so."
What part of "I believe" can't you accept Rob? You show me evidence that Judith Collins was advocating jailhouse rape (other than repeating the rhetoric from left-leaning bloggers), and you might have a case. At the moment though, you seem to be questioning my right to hold an opinion based on what I believe.
Not at all Inv2 - you have every right to hold your belief but I'm asking (for the umpteenth time) what leads you to think what you do?
Why do you think that 'with a cellmate' is a harmless, meaningless comment?
It's easy for me to explain why I think it is but I'm (again) asking why you think there's no harm in the comment, especially in light of the fact that it was said publically by a Minister of the Crown.
This is my last attempt btw. Apologies for badgering.
isn't
ROBG you are a twat...i read her comments that a looter gets jailed along with another one or any other lowlife...not suprised you labour pink thinks straight away to gay sex...
@ Kiwidealz; to be fair to Robert, he's a Green, not a Labour lackey.
See Rob; I defended you!
I given you my answer. But I'm still waiting for your opinion (or what you BELIEVE) of Phil Goff's "courtmartial, firing squads" comment. Did you think it was a joke? After all, you defended Arie Smith, but he was one of the ones that Goff was referring to.
Here's your chance ...
Kiwidealz - to be fair to Robert :-)
I'm not saying and haven't said a single word about 'gay sex'. Nor am I defending Goff's statements. I'm asking a very simple question of Inv2. Been asking for a while...
And you've had numerous answers Rob. To quote Mr Speaker (and his predecessor), they may not ne the answers you are looking for, but the honorable blogger has addressed the question!
"What part of "I believe" can't you accept Rob?"
I know and accept that you 'believe' Inv2. I'm asking what you base that belief on. What leads you to hold that belief?
Sheesh!
For example, I would argue that 'I believe' that Collins shouldn't have added 'with a cellmate' because a number of New Zealanders would associate double bunking with increased assaults on those in that position an/or an increased chance that the weaker of the two 'bunkees' will be more likely to be subject to opression from the other.
That alone should have caused Collins to refrain from saying 'with a cell mate' and for you to have some disquiet about her choice of words.
It's not difficult to explain why you believe something Inv2. I find it difficul to understand why you've avoided explaining yourself for sooooooooo long on this thread.
Maybe you got so myopic about Collins that you didn't get down to near the foot of the post Rob:
FWIW, we reckon that both Collins' and Goffs' comments were ill-advised, but in the circumstances, entirely understandable. These are extraordinary times, and emotions run close to the surface.
PS - I wonder how looters in Japan will be treated ...
Inv2 - I kept that footnote in mind all along.
I suspect there will be no looters in Japan.
As to our fruitless debate, I'm going to adopt your position (see, I can learn from my betters) and express an opinion then refuse to back it up with any reasons.
Phil Goff was just joking.
That's fine Rob; what you believe is no more or no less valid than what I believe.
Allow me the courtesy of expressing an opinion on what you believe though; if Phil Goff was joking (and bear in mind that the bFM interview was only six days after the earthquake), he's got a bloody awful sense of humour. That the man who would be Prime Minister is suggesting that the state execute people, even in jest is no laughing matter.
What I believe is of no value, unless I can explain my reasoning.
I recall standing on a bridge where the Clutha and the Kawarau joined (it is now under Lake Dunstan) some 60 years ago and watched a piece of flaxstick trapped in an eddy, dunno what made me think of that memory
I know just how that craddy stick feels Gravedodger.
Curiously, I walked the bed of Lake Dunstan when it was dry. I took the route between Bannockburn and Clyde and walked it barefoot, despite the sharpness of the rock. At that time, the expected level of the lake was marked with posts, most of them above the stone houses once occupied by gold miners that I nipped into along the way. I found it poignant.
Sorry bob, you havedemonstrated to the world at large that you are a plonker of the highest order.
Your failure to comment on Mr Goff's comments suggest that you support his views on the subject.
Perhaps you will be marksman no 1 in the firing squad. Given that the US approach is to hand out the live round on a random basis we will never know if you shoot blanks or not.
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