Thursday, May 10, 2012

A challenge accepted

We get some doozies of comments left here from time to time. But one of our nanoymous commenters has laid down the gauntlet to us this morning, and we've not only accepted the challenge; we deemed it worthy of a post in its own right; check this out:

Anonymous said...
Here's a challenge to you, Keeping Stock, though odds are your cave into your own fear and delete this comment. John Key has been going all hurt over how difficult things have become for him as Prime Minister, and in response, real New Zealanders have had their say about his pathetic moaning. Hwere, Uturn says what you don't want to hear - the truth. Have you the guts to leave it up as a comment on your blog? Very probably not. You're happy to post violence and crime to titillate your readers and yourself, but real comment, about what's happening all across the country? We'll see.

Uturn 8
10 May 2012 at 8:41 am

Oh boo hoo, Key ol’ boy. At least you have food, transport, winter shoes and clothes and a warm house to come home to.

Your kids are doing fine and not riddled with avoidable diseases; you could afford for the doctor to make a house visit if they were sick and not have to take unpaid time off your job to wait in a waiting room for 4 hours and then wonder what is going to fall off the needs list to pay for any prescription medicine.

You aren’t under the constant panic of having your pittance income whipped away from you by a sneering case worker. You don’t see society as hostile when you walk the streets, or know it when you see a BMW or Merc drive by, or sometimes even just a guy in a suit with a tie. When your bus makes a change in certain areas you don’t have to keep your eyes down to avoid the unprovoked insults and dirty looks because you aren’t from round there.

Unless you want to fight, that is. And when you do, the police know you are in the wrong because the other guy looks richer.

You don’t have to live for the moment, John, you dream of Hawaii. If it all goes wrong, no problem, you can escape. You don’t wonder to yourself what the hell you are doing alive when there appears to be no point at all, but to be abused or exploited by someone; or have to struggle to contain the agression, hate and hopelessness it causes.

You don’t know what it’s like to have no more than $5 to your name most days and if you have a bank account, you don’t use cash because that last 85c you’ll use eftpos to access is your last meal for the week – maybe a scone from the supermarket, or a muffin if they’re on special. Tastes great, John, fuckin’ great.

And it just stretches on and on, into the future, because despite being told there are plenty of jobs, employers haven’t replied to one of your applications for over a year and the selection to choose from is dwindling and the same fishing expeditions from consultancies keep coming up.

If you had $1150 dollars spare, John, maybe you’d do a basic IT course – one that is not easiliy dismissed by smug employers – but would it neutralise social prejudice, John? Would paying for a job move a person closer to a chance of getting one or being allowed to keep one, John?

Maybe we just make bad choices, John. Afterall, we’re all exactly the same, same backgrounds, same talents, living in a well-meaning warm and friendly cherry-pip world. You don’t know what isolation does to a person, John. No, you don’t have any of the kind of the anxiety that you, most recently, think young women and other beneficiaries should be under constantly.

Fuck you, you pissant thief.

Yep, gonna be a long two years, or less, for you, John Key. Some of the people you despise have lived much worse for most, if not all, their lives. If I were you, I’d leave the country when you’re done. In fact why not go now? Spring will be starting in the Northern hemisphere.
May 10, 2012 10:23 AM

Is there any wonder that John Key sometimes wonders what he's doing here? And let's be honest; there were those on the Right who were just as abusive towards Helen Clark towards the end of her Prime Ministership; we hope that we never stooped to this level of abuse though.

Let's not pretend that things are rosy in New Zealand; patently they are not, and the government is having to grapple with a myriad of issues. Likewise, there are a lot of people out there in less than ideal circumstances. It's not that many years ago that we were out of work, and on the bones of our bum. We're grateful that work became available, even though it was shitty, smelly factory work at minimum wage and unsociable hours. But we made a conscious decision to make the best of it, work as hard as we could, and get ahead. It was a humbling time, but it's not one that we will ever regret.

No government is ever going to please every citizen, and history will judge a government on how it looks after its most vulnerable. But benefits aren't being cut, the minimum wage has increased every year of this government, and every working New Zealander got a cut in personal income tax in 2010.

So what do you think; has Uturn got a point, or is this an abusive rant from a John Key-hater? And will our anonymous friend (there's some many of them now that we lose track) be surprised that far from deleting his/her cut and paste from The Standard, we're actually featuring it and encouraging debate?

Let's see where this goes...


Joel said...

Well, people are having trouble, but so are people under any government.

We don't have an isolationist command economy (thank God) so we are at the mercy of international conditions. Despite this, we have not felt the harshest effects of the GFC, as have the citizens of Greece.

John Key being wealthy does not make this person poorer.

Maybe we don't do it so well on the Right either, but it seems a lot of people have yet to grasp that very few people get into politics (and fewer still get elected) because they want to ruin peoples' lives.

John Key is not a "pissant thief" (whatever that means). This is an envious rant. I'm sure the author of this comment has worked hard, and maybe been a victim of circumstance. But that is not the government's fault.

They complain about getting a dirty look on a bus - at least there is a bus. They complain that there are case workers with the power to "whip away" a "pittance" - at least there are people employed to give you money, to make sure you aren't starving and homeless.

I don't want to belittle the difficulty in many peoples' lives, but here in New Zealand, nobody starves to death. Nobody has to scrounge for scraps at landfills. Some perspective would be good.

So let's not blame John Key.

Keeping Stock said...

A very reasoned and balanced comment Joel; thanks.

Ciaron said...

Well, this just got super boring.

Anonymous said...

Good man, KS.
Back soon to comment (work to do).

* Let's not blame John Key, Joel?
Give me a break. IT'S HIS JOB! (He's failing.)

macdoctor said...

No, anonymous one, it is NOT John Key's job to provide people with work but to get of the way of those who do - the business owners who provide the majority of jobs in New Zealand.

Yes, Key and his government suck at this, I concede. However, your alternatives (the Invisible Man & the Green Hornet) suck a lot more.

I have a number of friends who are currently on benefits. None of them are filled with the bitter envious bile of uturn. Perhaps uturn would like to spend a while in a country without our generous welfare and see how he feels about New Zealand welfare after that.

Anonymous said...

"John Key sometimes wonders what he's doing here."

Does he?

Then he shouldn't have taken on the job of Prime Minister, should he! Was he so out of touch, wrapped in spun-gold wool that he didn't know what he was getting into?
Poor delicate flower.

Anonymous said...

"there are a lot of people out there in less than ideal circumstances"

'less than ideal'?


How awfully well put, KS old chappie!

Anonymous said...

No, macdoctor, nobody, least of all me, said as you claim, that it's Key's job to provide people with work:
"No, anonymous one, it is NOT John Key's job to provide people with work"
It's John Key's job to ensure the best possible circumstances for all New Zealanders.
He has failed spectacularly to do that, by so many measures.
Failed to do his job.
And now he's blubbering that it's 'awfully hard'.

Anonymous said...

Ciaron said...
I'd say you could direct that rant against any of the past PM's for the last 20 to 30 years.

That being the case, Ciaron, you agree with Uturn who suggests that Key should go, now, having failed in his job.

Keeping Stock said...

@ Anon (any number of them) - we know nothing of Uturn's circumstances, and he/she is probably unaware that an anonymous commenter here cut and pasted it from The Standard in order to score points against John Key.

But the bottom line is this; the PM (whether National or Labour) cannot be held persoanlly responsible for the welfare of and choices made by every citizen of New Zealand. The government provides a framework, but there is a significant degree of individual responsibility as well. Joel's closing remarks above are very accurate:

I don't want to belittle the difficulty in many peoples' lives, but here in New Zealand, nobody starves to death. Nobody has to scrounge for scraps at landfills. Some perspective would be good.

So let's not blame John Key.

Perspective would indeed be nice, but I don't expect it from you Anon.

Ciaron said...

I agree Key is a failure, but for entirely different reasons.

Anonymous said...

The measure of John Key's 'success' is that 'nobody starves to death'?


You Key-adorers will forgive him anything. Even if people did starve to death as a result of the Government's failed policies, you'd be saying, 'John Key's not to blame!!!"

Because we love him.

He's like our Big Daddy.

Anonymous said...

Scott at Imperator Fish has joined the fray, slating Key for his churlish boo-hooing:

"I see that Mr Key has been complaining to anyone who will listen about how hard done by he is, and that nobody understands any more.

Well let me remind you, John Key, that you didn't become Prime Minister by accident. You made a lifestyle choice and now you have to live with it, and if you don't like it any more you should take yourself off the generous taxpayer-paid benefit you're on and go get a real job.

These f***ing government beneficiaries are all the same."

Where are all Key's defenders here, KS?
The defence of your Dear Leader has been wishy-washy. You've said next to nothing. Is that because you know Key's sounding like a whiner?

Keeping Stock said...

Go away Robert Guyton; you know that you are not welcome here, even when you resort to subtefuge.

jabba said...

I would LOVE to know the actual circumstances this person lives under .. I would suggest that he/she compiled a whole range of issues, combined them into one and suggests that the situation is common all over the counrty .. and the usual anon crap follows. I would suggest all those who comment here are doing ok .. and that includes bOb Guyton

Marnie said...

the minimum wage has increased every year of this government

Is what you said really true Keeping Stock? This is such good news. Can you tell me how much the Government has raised the minimum wage each year since they have been in . thank you. Marnie

Anonymous said...

Pete's been touting on your behalf at The Standard. Didn't go quite as planned though.

10 May 2012 at 11:33 am
“We’re grateful that work became available, even though it was shitty, smelly factory work at minimum wage and unsociable hours. But we made a conscious decision to make the best of it, work as hard as we could, and get ahead. It was a humbling time, but it’s not one that we will ever regret.”

Yeah well Inv2 wants to cut the min. wage, paid sick leave, holidays, and ban unions to make that job even more smelly and shitty.

10 May 2012 at 11:36 am
“we hope that we never stooped to this level of abuse though.”

Sure Pete, I’m pretending not to remember any of that too.

Pete George
10 May 2012 at 11:44 am
I don’t recall seeing Inventory2 stooping to low abuse, he’s one of the more reasonable commenters out there.

millsy …
10 May 2012 at 11:48 am
reasonable commentator.

He’s a bible bashing god botherer who wants to cut wages.

felix …
10 May 2012 at 11:51 am
Ah yes, I forgot that InventedTory likes to refer to himself as “we”. Silly me for assuming his sentence was supposed to make sense in the context of him talking about “the right”.

Keeping Stock said...

Ah Millsy eh; isn't he the commenter who was urging people to kill people a while back?

For the record:

God botherer - Yes, unashamedly so

Bible bashing - I sincerely hope not

Wants to cut wages - Given that I've gone from employing 5 people to over 40 in five years, all of whom earn well in excess of the minimum wage and most over $20/hr, hardly.

Wants to cut the minimum wage - No, but believes that $15/hour is unsustainable in the current economy

Wants to cut paid sick leave and holidays - nope

Ban unions - Nope; was a member of the EPMU until ten years ago.

One of the more reasonable commenters out there - even Lynn Prentice called me something like that once; not sure whether that's a help or a hinderance!

Likes to refer to himself as “we” - always have, pretty much since I started blogging. It's a point of difference; my posts are the work of me, myself and I!

PS - If you want to know more about millsy and how moderation works at The Standard, check this out:

Marnie said...

Have you forgotten me and my question Keeping Stock? Marnie

Keeping Stock said...

@ Marnie - I presume that was a serious question, so here's a serious response:

In force from: ADULT YOUTH

1 March 1997 $7.00 $4.20
6 March 2000 $7.55 $4.55
5 March 2001 $7.70 $5.40
18 March 2002 $8.00 $6.40
24 March 2003 $8.50 $6.80
1 April 2004 $9.00 $7.20
21 March 2005 $9.50 $7.60
27 March 2006 $10.25 $8.20
1 April 2007 $11.25 $9.00

1 April 2008 $12.00 $9.60 $9.60
1 April 2009 $12.50 $10.00 $10.00
1 April 2010 $12.75 $10.20 $10.20
1 April 2011 $13.00 $10.40 $10.40

Put simply, the minimum wage was $7.00/hour when Labour came to power in 1999, and $12.00 when they left; an increase of 71% in nine years. It's now $13.50; an increase of 12.5% in three and a half years.

Don't just take my word for it though; verify the figures here:

Judge Holden said...

"I agree Key is a failure, but for entirely different reasons."

Yes Ciaron. And those reasons are that he won't do anything about the scary moooooslims and other such swarthy types who are destroying our way of life and murdering us in our beds! One of these days that will come back to bite him big time eh? And he'll only have himself to blame...

Marnie said...

So when Labour 'left' it was $12.OO an hour. Three and a half years later, under National, it has only gone up to $13.50 - that's less than, what, 50c a year increase.

That's fucken disgusting. Marnie

Ciaron said...

Are you a seven foot tall murdering child rapist thief in real life too Judge? Or are you refering to another Judge Holden?

Ciaron said...

Marnie; ($12-$7)/9years= 0.55$/year. So Labour didn't do much better, especially given the positive economic climate they had to work with.

Keeping Stock said...

No point arguing facts with Marnie Cairon; but you have to laugh at Labour's miserly 15c/hour rise between 2000 and 2001, when the economy was apparently steaming along!

And if $15/hr was such a noble goal, why did Labour not even get close in nine years? You can say what you like in Opposition, when you don't actually have to put up.

Judge Holden said...

Ciaron, is that truly the best you can come up with? I suppose it's little wonder that you're almost totally ignorant, to the extent you can't even begin to comprehend things like metaphors. You're largely reliant on that weird, psycho gay guy "wabbit" for your understanding of the world.