If the Labour Party wants its economic policies to be taken seriously it needs to stop making up stuff.
The trouble is, its front bench MPs are starting to believe their own bullshi*t.
This week Labour finance spokesman David Parker tried to table in Parliament a document which does not exist.
Coming as it did within 10 days of his leader, David Shearer, making a big fuss over a tape of Prime Minister John Key which turned out to have similarly ectoplasmic characteristics, this seems to be a trend in Labour political tactics.
The effort came amid a testy exchange over economic policy.
The usually mild-mannered Mr Parker sought leave to table a series of documents which he says support New Zealand adopting what he called “Labour’s pro-growth capital gains tax”.
These included reports “from the OECD, the IMF, Treasury, and the Reserve Bank”, he claimed.
MP's try to table all sorts of things. The exercise of tabling documents usually has either two purposes; to embarrass one's political opponents or to vindicate your own position. David Parker was trying to do the latter, but he was on shaky ground as Hosking continues to explain:
Mr Parker is not the first Labour MP to claim the Reserve Bank supports a capital gains tax: Mr Shearer and former finance spokesman David Cunliffe regularly make similar claims.
It’s not true. What is more they know it is not true, which is why they are usually careful to trot out this claim in front of audiences who do not know any better.
Mr Parker realised his mistake and backtracked. When asked by Speaker Lockwood Smith to name the reports, he said he could not put a date on the Reserve Bank document “so I will not pursue it”.
Labour’s proposed capital gains tax would be imposed on the country’s businesses and, while it excludes owner-occupied housing, it includes any part of the family home which is used as a home office or similar premises used for business.
It would also not be paid until a property is sold. And it would also catch the family home if it is not sold before the owners die. A family home which is inherited by offspring and then sold by them would be hit by the tax.
The only time the Reserve Bank has specifically addressed such a tax it has rejected it. This was in a submission to the Productivity Commission late last year on housing affordability.
In a particularly pointed comment aimed squarely at Labour’s tendency to just make up stuff, the Reserve Bank said it has "never taken a stance on the general merits or otherwise of capital gains taxes".
But the mix advocated by Labour – which the Reserve Bank carefully did not specifically mention by name – would create more rather than fewer distortions and would not do the job Labour politicians claim it will.
David Parker narrowly avoided misleading the House with this stunt. Perhaps if caught, he would have chosen to invoke the Shearer Burden of Proof saying that he believed that the document existed, and that it was the job of those who didn't to prove otherwise. That seems to be Labour's prevailing logic at the moment.
Does Labour still believe that the voting public doesn't see through such subterfuge? You'd have to wonder, given that the last two political polls to be published (3News/Reid Research and Roy Morgan) show Labour going backwards and National rebounding.
Just as Labour has been unable to substantiate its allegations about John Key and senior GCSB personnel, it cannot prove that the Reserve Bank supports a capital gains tax. The Shearer Burden of Proof has proved to be a fizzer, and whichever of Labour's strategic genii conceived it should be put out to pasture.
25 comments:
"I....can't....recall"
Just sayin'. If you going to talk about troubles telling the truth, look first to the Ministers in the Key administration.
Does National still believe that the voting public doesn't see through such subterfuge?
I'm sure they don't believe that Edward. After all, National trended downwards when the Banks/Dotcom thing was at its peak. But now the public is seeing how desperate Labour is (how can you defend them?), and the tide has turned again.
If there's one thing that the NZ public likes, it's fair play. They punished Labour for dirty tricks in 2008 and 2011. But Labour seem to be slow learners.
Eddie the confuser, you might want to check if the Helen Clark "original" art work on your wall is actually the genuine article.
Look first to the 1999 - 08 Labour govt for gross dishonesty.
Just sayin'
Seriously Bunk, are you equating helping a charity out with law breaking and telling lies to the people of New Zealand to cover up your solicitation of large political donations from and close friendship with dodgy millionaires? How dodgy? Well, IV2 is obsessed with cataloging examples of KD's dodginess, so ask him. Why are you guys so unethical do you think?
Key is as unethical as they come, and Joe Public is starting to see past that fake, unwavering, vacant smile.
He is there for the glory and that is about it.
Money trader don't become filthy rich by being nice, honest, or ethical, now do they?
Ok Eddie the confused, let me 'un-confuse' you. The material on speeding motorcades and painter gate is freely available. I suggest you read it, lest ye be lieing to yourself - which is probably the worst lie of all.
Seriously, Bunk if you're still obsessed with these trifling and historical events - as seems to be the case - you really need to talk to someone. There are a new bunch in charge now, and they're taking mendacity to previously unseen levels.
"I....can't....recall..."
Ah the politics of catering to the ne'er do wells sense of entitlement, tax the rich pricks till they bleed, or at least threaten to, and give your vote to me, and we will give it all to you, our poor downtrodden masses, it is all so transparent
Truth has nothing to do with left politics, it is about unsubstantiated muck slinging....non existant tape,anyone?
There's no point arguing with the delusional 'confessor' (an ironic title indeed). Have a nice Sunday Eddie. When your finance spokesman comes up with his documents and your boy Shearer fronts with his tape I will look to amend my view that Labour is nothing more than a factory for baseless innuendo and BS. I cite the examples of your beloved camp leader because they are backed with something your arguments lack.....evidence.
Shearer did not make up the existence of the video recording of Key disscusing KimDotcom with GCSB staff.
Helen Clark's signature on someone else's painting is a trifle compared with the deceptions John Key has steeped his Prime Ministership in.
You all gloat over a poll, where you avoided discussing the unfavourable poll last week, and hope that it signals that the public have forgiven Key his ineptitude and deception. It hasn't, they won't. Key is no longer regarded as 'clean', nor is he thought of as honest. That's going to collapse his chances of reelection and allow the Left to take control of the levers of power at the next election.Between now and then, Keeping Stock and his handful of supporters will frantically point at any and every flaw they vcan find or invent in the Labour Party - it's to be expected, but where they are losing ground very fast, is with the Greens. Try as you might, and it's funny to watch you flounder around with weak attacks on them, throwing blows that land...no where and make you look desperate, you'll not hurt their inevitable rise. Turei and Norman will prevail and reform the political scene as soon as they assume their seats as Ministers.
Happy days, those will be. I'll keep you updated with their progress. Already this weekend, Norman has featured on the Nation and kicked arse (blue). There's more of that coming your way soon.
@ Bunk - Eddie's so confused he forgot this one; the H-Fee neutron bomb that they were going to detonate on John Key in the days leading up to the 2008 election. That was a damp squib too, and cost Helen Clark any chance she had of a fourth term as PM.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz-election-2008/news/article.cfm?c_id=1501799&objectid=10540101&pnum=0
@ Kerit's Little Helper - is literacy a problem, or was that just a typo?
Strangely, this post isn't about John Key; it's about another failed attempt by Labour to be less than honest.
And yes; I've heard about the free ride that Norman got yesterday on John Campbell's TV channel; quelle surprise. What a shame that the new governor of the Reserve Bank has ruled out QE (printing money) as an answer to the economic woes which are not so much caused by the weakness of our small economy, but the ailing large economies of our trading partners.
And Shearer DID make up the existence of a video, because he has not been able to back up his scurrilous allegation (that senior public servants destroyed evidence) with proof. It's Shearer's "show me the money" moment, just as Key did to Goff last year on Labour's way to 27%.
Kerit's Little Helper said...
"Shearer did not make up the existence of the video recording of Key disscusing KimDotcom with GCSB staff".
OK lets say you are right, (you are not but lets play your silly game)
WHERE IS IT??????? huh where is it...
Where is it..produce please, evidence please.
Prove that the labour leader is not just telling lies because he can, without evidence.
where is the tape? come on where is it?
Lofty - a question for you. Does Shearer's inability to produce the video prove that there wasn't one?
You say that I'm not right to claim that there was a video but there's no way in the world that you can be any surer than I am. Shearer says there was one. Shearer's imnformant from inside of the organization says there was one. There was a camera in the room. It's common practice to record all activities inside of the building (they specialize in observing and recording after all).
Those who say there was no video include Key (vested interest, anyone?) and the Firm (vested interest anyone?).
Are you so naive, Lofty?
Raping the ocean has left you bereft of commonsense (and probably chafing as well - the salt! The salt! It burns!(to say nothing of the sand!)
"And Shearer DID make up the existence of a video, because he has not been able to back up his scurrilous allegation"
Your statement lacks logic, KS.
Logic is needed when intelligent discussion is to take place.
Disappointing.
Goodness; ANOTHER Robert Guyton clone in the person of Antspace3. Has RG been running creative writing classes at Green Party gatherings? There are just so many people who mimic his unique prosaic style.
It's one of life's little mysteries...
@ K Sorder - Shearer has alleged that senior GCSB personnel "must have deleted" video evidence of Key's lunch-time wisecrack from hard drives. He cannot substantiate the allegation, but by even making it without any firm evidence, he has cast aspersions on the reputations of the very public servants who would work for him should he ever become PM. It's not a particularly good example of relationship building, don't you think?
Keeping Stock
Your comment at 3:35 is logical and I agree with your assessment.
Your earlier statement:
"And Shearer DID make up the existence of a video, because he has not been able to back up his scurrilous allegation"
is not logical and is therefore of no value. Can you defend it at all?
It's the second time I've asked and I ask knowing that you don't like to be pressured, so I'll add 'please, sir.'
Let me try an explain myself again K Sorder. On Thursday 11 October, David Shearer said "We understand there is a video."
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10839981
"We understand..." is hardly a ringing endorsement of his source, don't you think. The Herald later reported of Shearer: "He said he didn't know if the video still existed."
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10839932
Shearer has since accepted the assurances of the head honcho from GCSB that there was no video, and that no videos had been deleted.
But it gets worse; five days after breaking Shearer and Mold's "exclusive", Paddy Gower reported:
Labour leader David Shearer says his party has “asked the question” of the Prime Minister, by claiming that John Key was recorded mentioning Kim Dotcom at the Government Communications Security Bureau (GCSB) before the date Mr Key says he first knew about the man behind Megaupload.
But an increasingly stressed Mr Shearer now faces serious questions himself. The central one is: was a recording actually made? Did the GCSB tape ever actually exist?
Mr Shearer claims it did, so 3 News asked Mr Shearer's Labour colleagues if they knew where the tape was.
Labour MP Trevor Mallard says he doesn’t know.
“I don't know if it does exist, I’ve seen no evidence of it existing - but I know John Key told lies,” he says.
And if Mr Shearer was looking for support and undivided loyalty, he didn't get it from leadership rival David Cunliffe.
“I haven't had that information - I’m not sure what information he's got,” Mr Cunliffe says. “I have no idea.”
In Parliament today, Mr Key implied Mr Shearer was backing away from his claim.
“Now he says it’s not about the video – apparently it's not about the video.”
http://www.3news.co.nz/Has-Shearers-GCSB-claim-backfired/tabid/1607/articleID/272955/Default.aspx#ixzz2AYnosGZ0
David Shearer made a rookie mistake by going to the media before he had fact-checked his source(s). But worse, he's now trying to have us believe that you don't have to have any evidence to make an allegation, just an anonymous source, and that the onus was on the person you accused to prove that there was no evidence.
That is the polar opposite of the principles of fairness and natural justice. Surely the burden of proof lies with the accuser.
What would happen if some malcontent was to say that a source told him that David Shearer did something illegal. Would that be grounds to go rushing off to the media without some basis checking? Or would that be blatantly unfair to Mr Shearer?
David Shearer has opened up a big can of worms here. If he cannot substantiate his allegations he needs to withdraw them, and apologise unreservedly to those whom he smeared.
" If he cannot substantiate his allegations he needs to withdraw them, and apologise unreservedly to those whom he smeared."
You mean, if he can't provide the video.
If the video of Key joking about Kim Dotcom existed but was then 'disappeared', was Shearer correct in his accusation?
Apply logic here, KS and see if you can follow through to a credible conclusion.
Shearer was, I believe, foolish to make his accusations without the proof in his hands, but that does not mean his claim is wrong. I believe he was correct and that Key did do as claimed. Do you believe he didn't. (Please use logic to answer).
The worst of it is that if Key did joke about Dotcom at that meeting, his earlier claims become either lies, or gross incompetences.
Which is it?
Two things Sorder
1) I take it that you and every other left leaning person can remember every single conversation and utterance that you have made on Kim Dot Con?
2) I'm using logic as you keep askin KS to do and I keep coming back to ... Where's the tape????
Bunk
If I was addressing a cafe-full of spies and made jokes about Kim Dotcom, then yes, I'd remember that. Wouldn't you, or have you a memory like Key claims to have and if you have a memory that is shown time and time again to be so faulty, wouldn't you feel you have to stand down as Prime Minister? How can a country be lead bs someone who appears to have Alzheimers?
Secondly, just like KS, you have failed to answer my question, because there is only one answer and you can't bring yourself to give it, and have to revert to banging on with your own. How about you give it a go, Bunk, and stop being weak?
Your arrogance astounds K Sorder; you demand answers to something which is not in any way related to the topic at hand; Labour making things up over the CGT.
FYI, I went out for dinner last night. Time with my family was far more important that an reply to an incessant demand for an answer for a non-question.
You have stated your position. I disagree with it, and have stated mine.
End. Of. Story.
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